I’m a supporter of democracy, equal rights and openness and freedom. My dad was a diplomat, and my whole life the theme of open expression and world freedom has been ingrained since my childhood traveling the world with my family. Recently, the media coverage of the PUA community and the response from so called “feminists” have compelled me to write this blog post explaining what I think is going on in a fair and concise manner. For me, the seduction community was an enriching experience when I joined in 2007 where I met lifelong friends who helped me on my journey to become better with my social skills and with meeting women I truly wanted. It also came full circle in helping me become a better man and having more core confidence in myself.
Something that so helped enrich my life is now being bashed in our culture, and I wanted to take a moment to write to anyone who is interested in having an open discussion about why that is.
There has been many accounts of the PUA community being misogynistic and with every group there are the X-Men and the Brotherhood – seducers and bad apples / misogynists. I have been in several lairs over the last few years (PUA groups in other cities) and have gotten to know the guys quite well. The majority of the guys in these groups are just good, regular guys who want to improve their skills with women. Their desire to do is is driven by a love for women and a drive to improve their lives. All in all, these guys are positive, well-intentioned dudes.
Somewhere along the line, money got involved, and “gurus” began pitching products to “get laid fast” because that’s what sold. The outside world views this as the main theme of the community. In my experience, it is not. Go-to any well-run lair in your city and you will most likely find monthly meetings of guys talking about fitness, making money, and improving their dating lives. The essence of these groups of improvement of ourselves, and to establish social ties to help us do this. For example, in San Diego we have a group called “The Mission”, and the leader of that group interviews guys like Tim Ferris and Tony Robbins on lifestyle hacks that he shares with the group and implements. Our last meeting involved talks of meditation and “morning routines” – how your morning routine can effect the quality of your whole day.
I think the reason that the impression of the seduction community is one of misogyny has more to do with the marketing of seduction products, more-so than the actual groups of men trying to improve themselves. This is just based on my personal experience.
There’s already been lots of takes on this from Kezia to Julien to Tyler, The owner of RSD himself (thread hidden) The best summary of this whole fiasco is probably by Russell Brand:
Was Julien asking for it and was he wrong? Absolutely. But did the feminists / white knights get their facts right? They went a little overboard. The picture of the sexual assault chart was a mock parody (albeit in bad taste) of what not to do, and the idea that Julien teaches men to choke women is simply untrue. If you review his videos he’s been doing this for 7 years, arguably one of the best in-field coaches. Anyone who watches his videos and seen him out in-field knows this. He was experimenting to see if he could approach a girl, and place his hands around her neck, as if mimicking choking, and get away with it and still get her to like him. Does he actually use force? no, he’s simply placing his hands there. Does he tell other men to do this? No, he’s just demonstrating that with proper game, in a real social environment, you can get away with a lot. Is this done in good taste? Absolutely not. But forget the facts. “Ban Women Hating Dating Coach From Teaching Men To Choke Women! He Hits and Assaults Women!”. These one-dimensional bite-size news pieces are simply untrue.
There have been some support from women and feminists that men improving their social skills is a good thing, however the majority of the back and worth between feminists and Roosh and Heartiste is plagued by personal insults and and name calling instead of real discussion. I admit, Roosh is a bit more on the misogyny side, while I think Heartiste is a great writer and actually encourages open debate, despite the tone of finality of his writing style at times.
My recollection from documentaries of the feminist movement in the 1950s and 60s were that brave women stood up along the civil rights movement and championed for equal rights. Those women should be acknowledged for their stance. In the 1970s and 80s, things were getting better but also worse for men and women.
Perhaps one of the things I didn’t understand was how feminists blamed Hugh Hefner for exploiting women. Of all the things that Hefner loves, women was on the top of his list. In fact, Playboy, under Hefner’s rule, was one of the first companies to host black comedians, and champion civil and female rights in the country.
The very women that Hef helped turned their backs on him. @1:40 Hefner recalls:
“The concept behind the fact that Playboy objectifies women avoids the recognition of the fact that women are sexual objects. If women aren’t sexual objects, there wouldn’t be another generation. That’s who we are” In another interview, Hefner says, “Women are sexual objects. They are so much more than that… but in one aspect, they are the fascination of our male desires”.
Example of feminists going overboard? As commented on by a woman:
“As a woman I feel so terrible about all of this, because these feminazis say they are speaking for all women… but they are actually only speaking for their own hateful mindset. ”
Equal Rights vs. Sameness
A lot of feminist these days demand equal rights. I would argue that in the US, we’re legally there. There are no institutional boundaries against females as pertained by law. In fact, divorce laws and sexual harassment laws mostly favor women because the legal system has not kept pace with economic and cultural developments. In California, wives still get 50% without a prenup.
Yet some feminists still cry out “it’s not fair”, and one can’t help but wonder, where is this emotion of “we’re oppressed” coming from?
As a racial minority I can tell you that race is more of a factor in job interviews than gender. Having worked at some of the top companies in Silicon Valley, I have seen firsthand the benefits of being woman in a sea of engineers. Also, I do believe in equal rights and feminism in developing countries – women not being able to vote, or drive, is ridiculous and this should be fixed.
So why the anger? I don’t understand it. If you read feminist replies to Quora questions about relationships. or their responses to anything written or said about the PUA community, its seething with hate and finger pointing, instead of mutual understanding and agreement.
Common threads such as “you’re sexiest!” “so a woman has to be beautiful to be of worth?” come to mind. Not all of them are like that. But the ones we experience, yes, it is quite common to get those reactions.
Beyonce, Natalie Portman, Emma Watson etc are self proclaimed feminists, and are often cited as celebrity examples to the cause. I admire their efforts and applaud them, however you can’t ignore the fact their fame and fortune are partially due to heir sex appeal. So while they are condoning men for objectifying them, the paradox is that through that objectification they have become famous and rich.
Moderate vs. Extreme Feminists
I applaud moderate feminists for the fight. Blogs like http://www.feministfrequency.com/ talk about sexism in video games and cites specific examples of why gamers need to embrace women too. In my opinion, for the most part, we have already won. There are some cultural differences, but the legal pillars have fallen. There are no legal barriers that prefer one sex over the other in this country.
Extreme feminists, however, seem determined to prove their “oppression” and how unfair the system is. As a person who has lived in Africa and the 3rd world, I find it a bit of a “first world girl problem”… when there are real lives at stake in so many other parts of the world. Also, I’ve seen, first hand at top companies, favoritism towards females in corporate ladders so any cultural bias about “women making less money ” just doesn’t jive logically. I see girls working tables and at nightclubs afforded much more privileges than men. Sometimes, it makes me wish I was a woman.
In fact, I think in certain situations, being Asian or a minority in the US has more cultural bias and negative social consequences than being a white female. But I don’t go on bitching about it!
The Real Situation / #TakeDownJulienBlanc
Another problem with extreme feminists is that they’re not really that careful or diligent in their analysis of situations. Jen Li certainly came up with a whole slogan of things to accuse RSD:
First of all, isn’t she over-reacting a bit to the situation? Of all the things to be upset about, what’s really the source of this anger?
Further investigation into really understanding the situation will reveal that the majority of Julien’s videos are about helping guys improve their game. Sometimes he’s a little outrageous and provocative. Why? Because Julien is bored. He’s gotten so good at game that now he just wants to push the boundaries to see what he can get away with. Mainstream media and white knights and feminists don’t fully understand the situation. Its like a biologist writing about gorillas instead of living among them or observing them in the wild. As a guy who’s been in-field for 7+ years, I can tell you that most women respond not according to what society “thinks”. Notice how all the Japanese women in the video are smiling? They are finding Julien’s antics funny. No one is getting hurt.
We tend to think that men need to treat women a certain way – open the door, show respect. But what happens out in the field doesn’t flow along this logic. Raw attraction happens in-field. Among playful teases, push/pull, coyness. You can deny this all you want, but go in-field, and see the Matrix for yourself.
Mainstream Media and Loudest Feminists
Thirdly, some feminists are basically stating untrue things. Like, “PUAs pick up women by choking them” or “promoting rape culture”. Actually, learning pick up prevents rape from happening. It gives guys a chance to come into their own and learn to talk to girls in a way that’s fun for her, and for him to overcome his fears.
The mainstream media isn’t helping. Not one journalist has really dived into the facts and explained the situation. Instead, they are all juicy titled pieces that garner viral hits and hate. Its not about proper journalism anymore. Its just about Internet traffic and the money. Isn’t that sad to anyone else but me?
Put this into context. In pick up, Julien and other instructors have basically come up with ways to engage and open girls. And if you actually review in-foot footage, women can be turned on by bold moves. Yes this goes against mainstream social narrative but – not every interaction occurs with hand shakes and white knight date gestures. In a nightclub, anything goes. All Julien was saying is that, he tried to open girls my mimicking a choking gesture. That was his in-field challenge. Some other PUAs try to engage a girl by kissing her without speaking. Others even try to engage women by “the claw”, pulling them in as they are walking by. Are these situations “oppression against women”? Or are they purely made up statements from viewers of the material? Why don’t we ask the women themselves?
Julien’s statements are extreme, and yes, I agree that some of it is inappropriate. But you have to put it into context – these are 2 out of hundreds of his videos that are made to be provocative.
I don’t see anyone complaining about this: touching 1000 boobs:
But what happens in night clubs around the world and what really works is different than what mainstream thinks. Actually, even in Sex And The City, there’s a moment that illustrates that raw sexual attraction exists beyond social norms of “I need to shake the girls hand first and buy her dinner”.
Other Opinions (Not Mine, Just Citing them)
Roosh V has a different take on this, citing Patriachy of the old white knights.
A more raw opinion answer from “seeker of truth” on Yahoo! Answers:
I know I’ll get about 50 or more Thumbs Down’s for saying this, but when you break it down to the core, basic animalistic level, Feminism was founded by ugly women that society ignored because they weren’t attractive enough.
If your a woman, and not attractive ‘at all’, your then ignored, treated unfairly, and you become jealous of beautiful women. You also have tons of time to think about your situation as an unnattractive woman. You start seeing how without beauty, women don’t go very far in society, at least 60 years ago. The anger starts to build, your start sharing your feelings with other women like you about things like how if the man cheats and leaves for a more beautiful woman, she’s left with nothing and how unfair that is, next thing you know you have the beginnings of feminism.
I say this because a very attractive girl would not be the first woman to need something like feminism in her life to give her more opportunities since she has tons of free bees just being a pretty lady. Only after the ugly ones with problems create the path to feminism do the pretty ones start being convinced by their words of oppression. Then begins the disscussion about ripping down what makes male and female who they are, which is an action based on trying to make the playing field equal. Meaning, if everyong looks and acts like the same gender, the ugly women don’t have to compete with the pretty ones any more. Society won’t see the pretty girls as more “woman” than the ugly ones. I know this isn’t what those feminists were thinking, but I have a feeling they were drivin by this feeling subconsciously.
Fast forward to today, now we have pretty and ugly feminists, but even still, there are more ugly feminists than pretty ones because the pretty still recieve more opportunities much easier. The pretty still like being “women” and like being “a pretty female”, and they still like aspects of gender that gives them power as pretty women.
I think this is the core reason why their are so many different views of feminism. Look at a very pretty and successful female feminist, then look at the ugly one who isn’t as far in life, and there will bound to be vast differences in how they view feminism.
EDIT: This final comment will surely get me epic thumbs downs, but again, I can’t ignore what I notice in people:
Think about it. Pretty girls like shaving and looking attractive. It’s usually the ugly ones who fight the idea of shaving. The pretty ones are usually fine with having a boyrfriend since it’s easy for them to get one. The ugly ones are usually the ones who tend to say “I don’t need men”, and are more likely to eve experiment sexually with other women, even if their not truly bi or lesbian. Pretty girls usually love wearing dresses. It’s usually the ugly ones who are oppose to it, and all about wearing pants and simply shirts. Pretty girls usually enjoy their femininty. The ugly ones tend to see fenininity as a weakness, mostly because they are too masculine already to pull it off. And then it’s the ugly ones who tend to hate words like “Masculine” and “Feminine” because they don’t want to be seen as “Masculine.” Basically the ugly ones are all about restrictions due to their own insecurities that they then push on men as the problems in their lives.
As evil and wicked and painful as this all sounds, it actually makes a lot of sense. Not that men never oppressed women in some ways in the past, but the ugly factor does play it’s part in this. And lastly, I’m not even talking trash about “ugly” women. What is “ugly” anyway? Thats all relative at a certain level. And the women who feel ugly, usually aren’t really ugly, they just feel that way in the presence of rare women = to super models. Which is a shame. Nerdy ugly guys have the same problems. And I’m not Brad Pitt, just a average dude.
Now, I know I deserve nothing but pounds upon pounds of Thumbs Downs for this, but because of how much I rip into seeking the truth, I had to say that which was revealed to me
Freedom of Speech
Let’s assume that everything is true. (Actually ,it’s not, but let’s assume). Julien teaches guys how to choke girls. That’s fucked up. Even so. The first amendment protects free speech. Even hate speech. Supreme court ruled that the government has no right to exert power in any public speech, even if it is deemed hateful. That means, if someone went to a public street and started or a gathering and talked about white supremacy, or nazi glory, they would have a right to do so. While you may not agree with what they are saying, they have a right to do so in a free and democratic society. Forbes published an attorney’s view on this here. So ironically, feminists who are supposed to be fighting against oppression and rights, are oppressing free speech, and asking governments to shut down a man based on what they think [incorrectly] he’s saying in a video. I’m not sure what is worse. The minister of Australia caving the public pressure, or the inability of today’s advocates to see the full context of what’s going on, or seeing the big picture by supporting one action but in the process, killing the idea of a broader democratic freedom.
Expression of feelings of oppression, hate, distaste VS. Expression of understanding, love, and openness
True feminists are women who understand their nature – sexuality is a part of the female nature – they embrace it, they use it to relate to the masculine, for we are all one. Instead, what’s happening is that some feminists are waving the “feminist” flag. If it wasn’t the feminist movement, they would channel it into something else because their negative emotions need an outlet. I see girl models all the time and they tell me, some of their greatest moments is in front of the camera, being appreciated for her beauty. She understands that one day it will be gone. She understands that she’s so much more than that, but she is also that – beauty incarnate. She also enjoys the whole process of getting ready for the shoot and understanding the industry and the illusion of the model’s role in society.
Yes, we’re here, And we are men. And we see you. A witness to your beauty. To your energy. We want nothing from you. Simply to be in the presence of your energy. Your femininity. We don’t care what you look like, only that you embrace your nature. And we will too – as real men, not betas or emasculated males, but strong, stable and wild. Together, we can traverse this world. Together, we can be as one.