Group discussion on the tactic of eliciting values
JHunt: I was talking on the phone to a friend of 2 yrs. I started trying to change my thinking patterns and image to her. She says she has noticed my new “attitude”. Anyway, when Eliciting values, I tried…
Me:Why do you date who you date, I mean, What is your Idea of the perfect guy?
Her:I dunno, EX’s name.
M:How did he make you feel?
Me:You didnt feel excited when around him?
H:Only while we were having sex.
You: What excited you the most about the sex?
You: How do you know, when you have X, that it’s really good? What does this guy do that gives you X?
You: So when you have X sex and a guy is doing Y, how does it make you feel?
You: So if you have X sex and someone is doing Y, and you’re feeling this amazing sense of Z, wouldn’t that be a great thing to have. With me, I know that…
Just keep going, find out everything that turns her on, anchor it to yourself, and push those buttons…
>>I had fucked up by this point, but I did go on to tell her vaugly of how I cam make a girl with a great imagination feel wonderful emotional states and such, as we are friends, and it is somewhat odd that she shows up from florida and I am different.
>>My question is, what the hell should I do now? Try to make her feel NORMAL? WTF.
Style: Dude, you didn’t fuck up. You stopped too soon!
Adonis: There is a way to get to Values no matter what she gives you… Know the STRUCTURE of the EV model.
1. The Value (Underlying Quality)
2. The Rule (How they know, what they do, what their strategy is, what their PROCESS is)
3. The Interaction between the value and the rule (This is where they go in to STATE… this is where you want to ANCHOR)
If a gal has had a hard time giving me a value, I’ve simply asked, “So if you could be doing anything in just the way that you want to do it… NOW, what would this be?”
Notice that I am asking for the RULE. Sometimes people will misunderstand what you mean by a value or a quality and they will give you their RULE. Know how to recognize this and be able to go to the underlying value. Notice that Rules are ACTION oriented and often EFFECTS… whereas values and qualities are descriptors and CAUSES.
Once I have a value/quality along with it’s rule, I ask for what it would give them to have X quality… where they did Y.
And this is where I anchor. I may even elicit a CONCRETE particular experience to further amplify this state.
Hey, just ask Chris Powles how powerful this is as I demonstrated it and anchored his values to sugar packets over lunch this last Sunday.
Style: And not only did he anchor everything that I cared about to the sugar packets, but then he poured it all into his ice tea and drank it. I was forced to call him a vampire on the spot.
>>BTW, we had an awesome roundtable discussion and lots of fun with Ross Jeffries, Sin (Did I spell that right), CP, Swinggcat and myself.)
>>The waitress and manager did not know what they had gotten themselves into… Ross was an absolute MASTER, Sin combined Natural Skill and Intelligence, Chris was ever coming up with new and even better ways of approaches as he broke down underlying processes of how we do what we do, Swinggcat of course was smooth and hypnotic, and myself… I can’t really comment on but for some reason that I’m not entirely sure of, Sin believes I am his counterpart but on the Dark Side… Hey, if he’s not Dark then what am I? (Puzzling, since I am the nicest guy you could meet… although at the end of the night I asked Chris if he still thought I was evil… he said, “More than EVER!”
>>We had all kinds of FUN. Which brings me to another point… above all, HAVE FUN with it.
Style: True, we had a lot of fun, saw an amazing demo of Ross’s skills (he had a waitress and hostess competing for him within just 5-10 minutes of convo for each), and watched helplessly as Adonis sucked up our values and hijacked anchors on everyone’s sarges. Yes, he is nice and lovable and all, but he’s dangerous. It’s like Mike Myers: he’s both Austin Powers and Dr. Evil rolled up in one.
Juggler: Eliciting values is not always a straight forward proposition. Many times you will get crummy answers. This is not because she is stupid or that there are not any deep values. It is just that she may not be used to sharing her feelings in this manner. You need to help her by giving examples and leading a little. If you change a state you need to be prepared to supply the meat of the topic until she gets warmed up. For instance:
You: Why do you date who you date? I mean, what is your idea of the perfect guy?
Her: I dunno, EX’s name.
You: How did he make you feel?
Her: Um, normal.
You: That is interesting because I dated a girl for awhile who I would say made me feel the same way. She was such a stable person. And she really knew how to love me. This sounds terrible but I broke up with her to be with this really naughty girl.
Her: Yeah, I know what you mean. He was the perfect guy but…. what I really want is…
Many times girls will give you lame answers. Do not take them at face value. Probe deeper by leading.
JHunt: So basically I need to try and find out what she wants, not what causes her to want this?
Ex. She says she likes a “cute guy”(cause) and when I get her to tell me how they make them feel (rule?) For some reason I am having a little bit of a problem with this. I am gonna reread the post and see if I can better understand.
Also, you know the founder of this stuff? I have read some of his stuff, and the guy is one hell of a writer and he uses nlp masterfully in his teachings, or it seems that way. I tried to buy his course, but the guy that answered said I was too young. Oh well, I then found this sight.
Adonis: You’ve got it right. This is the principle behind “Trance Hijacking”. and then you can STEAL the ANCHORS. I want to get at the VALUE, but if they give me the RULE then I can go back to the value from there.
Ex: If she were talking about some specific guy… I would first of all shift to a BIGGER view (Not about HIM but about the process… that of attraction…)
Like when she talks about a Movie Star or Teen Idol…
Like, “When you feel attraction, how do you know that you feel THIS?… (RULE, i.e. process) She might say, “I feel a warm flush…” I have said,”where do you feel this warm flushing?” “Right here… as she points to her chest” and I would try to get even MORE description of her process of how she GETS there. and as she describes it, she of course GOES THERE in her mind.
(FEELING ATTRACTION is a STATE of mind, FEELING STRONG RAPPORT is a STATE, BEING HORNY is a STATE, BEING TURNED ON is a STATE, BEING READY TO FUCK YOUR BRAINS OUT is a STATE.)
If you can Master eliciting these states and getting them to GO THERE… THEY will do your work FOR YOU. Also ALWAYS be aware of the KEYS that they give to you. (Trance WORDS, her Process… etc.)
I then go for the “Interaction” between the value and the rule. (I unlock the door to the STATE using the KEYS that she’s given me)
“So what would it be like if there was this person, who you felt so attracted to, and you could start to feel this warm flush starting to spread right here (Touch her) from your chest… as it flows and spreads outward… becoming more and more intense as you can FEEL THIS… and …(what she gives you)… what would THIS be like? What if THIS guy was right here in front of you and you could step in to this experience now… what would you most want to do…?”
And as she describes what it is like, she goes right into the feeling and experience as you touch her, focusing your intent, you may even be able to see her face/chest flush, her pupils dilate… and of course this is where you ANCHOR or just full on congruently move in physically.
JHunt: Genius, so for review… Basically, find out the cause, use it to get the rule. Describe and ask what she would feel like when she sees this guy in front of her. Then I toss it back at her with something like…”If your wer to see X (guys name), what would you feel like?
her: I would feel very nice.(I get that alot)
me: Would you feel nice in a romantic way?
me: What kind of feelings would he, if he were standing in front of you generate?
Her: I would feel really (ex. W)
So then I continue, basically try to pry the stuff out of her?
Uberguy: Can you expand on the definition of RULE please? I am inferring the following:
RULE – The rule by which she recognizes a given end value. To use the player guide as an example, the means value is “tall man”, the end value is “protected, secure” and the rule would be the condition(s) under which she feels protected and secure. Is this correct? I am trying to reconcile your EV structure model with that found in the player guide. I am not sure they are the same just yet. Would you care to give an example of a Value, Rule, and Interaction thereof?
Adonis: The rule is the “way that someone knows”… the strategy, the mechanism… the actions… the recognition factors. Here’s an example:
Me: (Value) “What is something that you would want to have… a quality in your life… to be satisfied or happy?”
Her: “Maybe passion…”
Me: (Rule) “So how would you know that you had passion in your life… what kinds of things would you do… how would your outlook and experience reflect this sense of passion… How would you see the world?”
Her: “I would focus on these moments… finding these times when I could forget about everything and just enjoy the moment…”
Me: (Interaction) “What would it be like and what would it give you… to have this sense of passion, where you could focus on these moments… where you could forget about whatever limitations of the past that you once had… and forget about any future anticipation… and just be fully in this moment… enjoying this in just the way that you want it…”
Her: “It would be awesome… it would give me a sense of completion… (Anchor here)
Me: “So if you were to be with someone… where you could feel this passion… where you could fully experience this moment… opening you up to this growing sense of completion… well, with me I think this would be awesome… and what would it be like if you could just step into this part of you… into this experience right now… and fully just immerse yourself in this moment… opening up more and more this whole part of you… where you could be filled with this sense of passion and find it flowing out from you in ways that you had never even thought possible… with me, this would be awesome…” (Continue to intensify the anchor)
Combine with Anchoring and Intent… and after 3 she will be ready to go wherever you want to lead her…