An interesting observation into value vs. attraction and what those mean to different girls / people
There is no absolute and objective value. It is all relative. What is valuable to one girl is not valuable to the next.
This is a long one, so here’s a rundown:
1. A clear distinction between, and balance of attraction and value.
2. The psychological and physiological effects of both attraction and value.
3. The difference between surface attraction and deeper neurology based attraction.
4. Practical applications to decrease flaking and increase your overall odds of converting a chick.
First let’s talk about value.
There is no absolute and objective value. It is all relative. (Cred: Dimitri) What is valuable to one girl is not valuable to the next. A rich and successful businessman has much value to a low income single mother, but relatively little value to a middle aged sugar mamma looking for a hot young stud. Similarly, some super peacocked goth dude has a lot of value to other goth chicks, but to a college party chick looking for a crazy frat boy, the goth dude is just some lame ass weirdo.
To a woman, a man’s good looks and sense of style add to his value. His money and success – add to value. His body language which telegraphs his status and beliefs – that is value. His fame and social proof – still value. The compatibility of his and her identities, the strength of their connection (rapport is a subset of value), his listening skills, his conversational skills and socializing abilities – all value. If the girl shares similar interests as the guy – that makes him valuable. If he is a immigration lawyer and her family is overseas, he is extremely valuable. You get the picture ;)
In addition, if a man shares similar views of the world, and has similar future ambitions and dreams as she does (i e. They both want to be married by age 32 and have 3 kids…) this is also value. Compatibility equates to value. The perception of value is the conditioned response instilled in us by society and our upbringing. The average guy on the street in an attempt to get women will focus and make apparent his VALUE. He will attempt to show his material possessions and success and he will tell her he has similar interests and dreams for the future. This is the game of AFC’s. It is comprised 99% of value, and the other 1% of the time, he randomly and unconsciously does something to create attraction. Unfortunately, there are also a lot of AFC’s that subconsciously AVOID creating attraction.
The downfall of a nearly attraction-absent game is that the girl will attempt to LJBF you. You become valuable to her as a friend. If there is no attraction, there is no reason for the girl not to leave you in that category, with unlimited access to your value for eternity.
On the plus side, since value is completely aligned with society’s programming, it can reduce your flaking completely. More on that later.
Now let’s talk about attraction. :)
Attraction is highly coupled to validation. It is an automatic emotional response which symbolizes chasing. Attraction is felt physically in the body as a force propelling you to that which you are attracted. The very act of chasing something makes you more attracted to it. Actions which resemble chasing also create attraction. Metaphorically speaking, if you move toward someone, you feel attracted to them, and they feel validated. Conversely, If you move away from them, they feel attracted to you, while you feel validated.
Attraction is created by the multitudes of techniques and methods that are studied here on mASF. Negs, hoops, push-pull, c+f, dominant frames…etc. Anything that removes a person’s validation in a fun and playful way creates attraction toward you. The fun and playfulness is there because that is what sucks them into and assists them in accepting the dominant or imaginary frame you have created with the technique. Remember that all of the attraction caused by verbal techniques is just surface attraction. It is temporary and superficial. People have a tendency to resist attraction. They are aware of the irrational emotional response created by attraction and attempt to shut it off as quickly as possible. Surface attraction created by mASF techniques is easily dissipated when a girl removes herself from the stimulus. Surface attraction is anything which does not give physical pleasure, however it is what leads to the deeper pleasure based attraction.
A theoretically perfect internally validated woman feels no attraction and chooses her partners based solely on their value. Of course those women don’t really exist ;) so we have nothing to worry about. It is a worthwhile goal for us to become completely validated and choose those partners which only add value to our lives, and help us fulfill our dreams and goals in life.
There is also deeper level attraction created through kino and sex. When you touch and more importantly, fuck a woman, you anchor yourself to physical pleasure. This effect resembles attraction, but is much more powerful and intense — also much harder to resist. It is the deep level attraction which locks itself into a woman’s neurology through physical pleasure which will create strong bonds that are difficult to break. This is why good sex is so important to our game.
Ok, enough theory, how does all of this relate to GAME??
Flaking Sucks. Have you ever been in a club, ran a tight fucking set, had girls laughing, touching you and had their complete attention on you all night long?? Ever had those same girls flake? If you answered yes, then read on my friend, that is what this post is all about! :)
What you did was create massive amounts of surface attraction. But there are two important properties to surface attraction which work against you. Firstly, it is temporary and state based. It goes away when you do. Secondly, it is resisted because to the girls, it is a familiar unempowering emotional response. If you create a ton of surface attraction in the club, take a number and then go home…. I guarantee you have a flake on your hands. Flaking is the result of excess attraction combined with a lack of value. Simple and predictable. The only way to win a completely attraction-based game is to lay back completely, give her YOUR number and let her chase you, since any chasing on your part will dissipate her attraction to you. Likewise if you have lost a lot of value for some reason, if she discovered that you misrepresented your value, you cannot chase her to regain it. The attitude must be “Hey, I am who I am, take it or leave it.”
Current anti-flaking techniques on mASF such as phone freeze outs and Next’ing her attempt to counteract flaking by creating more attraction. While these work on a temporary basis, they only address the symptom, not the cause of flaking. (I remember someone on the Intra-lair teleconference talking about using a phone freeze out 4 times on a chick before he got her to meet up) Since the underlying cause of flaking is a lack of value, merely adding more surface attraction is not only inefficient, but potentially detrimental. It only works proportionately to the amount that a chick is externally validated by guys. In other words, it only works on the type of chick who’s only motivation in life is to be pursued by guys. Certainly someone I would never want as a girlfriend anyway.
If you play the attraction / validation game, remember that unless you create significant value, you are perpetually stuck in that game. Remember – chasing a girl completely dissipates attraction, so the moment you validate her, she will lose interest. Ugly / low relative value guys are forced to play the attraction game. The girl realizes he doesn’t validate her, she says “WTF, this ugly guy doesn’t like me, I’ll change that!” and then proceeds to chase his validation, he plays a tight attraction game, fucks her a few times and she is caught.
The way to cure flaking is to demonstrate your value to a chick. Value has very important anti-flaking properties. It is permanent, it doesn’t go away with time, and it is aligned with the influence of society and a girls previous programming. So when a girl leaves your presence, and her state goes back to “normal”, you still have value. It doesn’t change a bit.
Demonstrating value has a few components. First of all, you need to elicit what is valuable to her. And when I say EV, I don’t mean the Speed Seduction EV routine, that can work, but I prefer a more subtle means. Through vibing with the chick, pay attention to what she talks about, and what her feelings are on different topics. Girls are CONSTANTLY communicating their values to us, we just need to tune into it. You can read a girls emotional response to things through her body language and tonality. What ideas and topics does she respond positively to? What does she respond negatively to? Cold read her values. You can say something like … “I get the sense that X is really important to you… I like that.” If you really want to be slick, then take her values and improvise a routine which demonstrates that you also have those values.
I have been able to turn around flakes (girls who would not even answer / return my calls) by demonstrating my value via a voicemail message to her. There is no attraction technique that can compete with that! ;)
Ideally there should be a balance of attraction and value. The overall willingness a woman has to respond to you and please you is based on both value + attraction. A great PUA will demonstrate his value while producing enough attraction so that he has a chance to either demonstrate more value or seduce and fuck her (producing deeper level physical attraction). Let’s talk application.
In a bar / club / mall / supermarket setting, when I’m not certain I can isolate a chick: (And most of the time since girls go out with their peer group, isolation is largely based on logistics) In this type of situation I will demonstrate value, with a bare minimum amount of attraction. I will take the number and be fairly certain she will not flake. Then I will create a situation where isolation is possible.
In isolation / or situation which predictably leads to isolation: Here I will ease off of the value and ramp the attraction. When I know the chick is not going anywhere, I will remove as much of her validation as possible and create a situation where it is her top priority to earn it back. Then I will use that opportunity to isolate, seduce and fuck her. It is important to fuck her very well at this point such that you anchor yourself to her intense pleasure. After sex, during the debriefing, continue to demonstrate your value to her to prevent future flaking.
The basic formula is:
1. Create perceived relative value for myself to reduce flaking and get her to meet.
2. Maintain enough attraction such that she does not view me as just a friend.
3. Create intense attraction during isolation to promote seduction.
4. Create a deep physical desire for me by linking myself to pleasure via sex.
5. Prevent future flaking by continuing to show that my value to her is real and genuine after sex.
Repeat steps 1-4 to reinforce and deepen the effect even more.