Context: TD discusses old AMOG tactics back in the old forums. Be careful – his tactics may be outdated and can get you into fights. The overall philosophy is that of handling AMOGs who genuinely mean you social harm.
Once you get the guy to qualify himself to you in any way (like he tries to make friends), rather than being nice, IMMEDIATELY cut him out of the circle. Just cut him out. You’ll notice him trying to SHUT YOUR GAME DOWN by bombarding you with logical questions. They’ll start pummeling you with logical stuff, so that you have to answer him the girls fall out of state. For me I found the solution was just to say “hey man, don’t get all scientific on me.. we’re here to have fun..” and then immediately start gaming the girls again. btw, if I’m out with any of my GFs at a club, and another guy hits on them, I use the same tactics on AMOGS to stop them.
When you cut him out of the circle, he’ll either leave (too deflated), or he’ll try to grab your shoulder and say something like “don’t turn your back on me”. From there, the girls think he’s creepy, so you say “hey guys, this dude is creepy.. are you friends with this guy?? did YOU bring this guy here?” The girls will say “no no no, we don’t know him”, and you say “OK, let’s get out of here”, and put out your arms for them to grab.
Then walk away with the girls on your arms, and if you want (I do this alot) turn around and have them both kiss you on the cheek and wave the AMOG goodbye.
Also, you can USE the AMOG’s WORK for yourself. Like he lines ’em up, you knock ’em down.
This is something I do alot. I let a guy pick a girl up and increase her buying temperature, then I go in and outalpha him, say he’s creepy to the girls, and then remove them from him.
The girls are already aroused, so they are still in state based on what the AMOG did. I can do this like maybe on 90% of sets I approach where a natural AMOG has gotten far with a girl. I think a dude I know “Stephane” recently posted about this on Cliff’s List regarding a sarge we did.
Basically, I just make the friends of the girl who is getting gamed on by the AMOG like me. Like, they want me, but they know they’re not qualified but their friend is.
hen I say “Hey I want to meet your friend so much, but that touchy grabby lean in guy is all over her.. is she just being nice, or does she really like guys who lean in and touch and do all the ‘whats your name’ fake ungenuine stuff?”
The UGs are invariably like “no no, we hate guys like that.. that’s why we love you so much blah blah”, and then you get the FRIENDS to literally REMOVE the hottie that you want from the AMOG who is conveniently heating her up for you and saving you the hassle.
….saw some more tonight.
I’m walking home (first day back at school, btw) and some dude is pissing on the wall.
AMOG: its fucking huge, huh? TD: yeah dude, I almost swooned.
He’s surprised obviously (this guy was pretty alpha actually). He keeps walking, probably thinking of how to out-alpha me.
AMOG: swooned huh? hahah man you’re such a JOKER.
(I *LIKE* this one, calling guys a “joker” if they nail you with a good one.. like the implication is that he’s the insecure type to use humour to gain acceptance)
TD: yeah man… you know I’ve got to impress..
(standard come back for guys who imply I’m trying to impress them with any of the “nice shirt” or “you’re awesome” type stuff)
AMOG: haa, I AM impressed man..
(still trying to top me here)
TD: guy, without my fans
(I raise my hands to finish the sentence.. notice that in out-alphaing, you don’t use alot of well thought out sentences.. its like even giving well thought out answers is too much.. this is like from JAP Busting posts where I answer “why did you ask me this” simply with “.. ..I’m talking” (with a funny face like “WTF is she thinking asking me this.. ) Then I do freeze out and turn my back on him. If he attempts to re-initiate, he’s outalpha’ed, so must give up.. Also, if a guy answers with something too well thought out, I just smirk and go “whoa dude, that’s pretty scientific” and immediately turn my back and freeze him out.. As usual, if he tries to get me to turn around by grabbing me, I run the “whoa dude, Club-477 (gay club here) is down there.. hands off the merchandise buddy, and if he replies I keep saying “man I’m not gay.. stop trying man, I’m not gay”).
I think another variation of this could be if a guy really burns you, you could say:
PUA: haaa, GUY, hahah.. man, I can’t keep up with you buddy, while I’m out you’re like at home thinking this stuff up.. guy you are a JOKER man..
P.S.: For the record, I think that this whole thing is fucking lame. I’m just glad that I understand it now. I remember being back in high-school and having these assholes using shit like this on me, and I have to say that just understanding the format well enough to be able to out-alpha anyone is awesome (combined obviously with that I can remove their chicks from them, if not totally then at least get them obviously wanting to within around 1 minute which the AMOGS fucking hate).
I think that the main benefit is that you never have to feel like somebody in a public gathering is going to make you feel like shit or embaress you, because you can cut them down faster and harder than anything that they can do to you.
Thanks Craig. That reminds of me the classic “Hey, when I’m talking to you I’ll point my finger at you” from your Elimidate. I used that tonight and the HB 10 was all over it.
One addition that I forgot about.
Sickboy007 and I were gaming a 2 set from this HUGE 6’6 black guy. Once he looked ready to knock us down, Sickboy007 goes –
Sickboy007: Dude, have you ever seen Fight Club.. Have you ever seen Fight Club??
AMOG: umm yeah..
Sickboy007: OK dude, dude.. “I want you to HIT ME, AS HARD AS YOU CAN”… hit me.. hit me…
AMOG: (looking like WTF?)
Sickboy007: whoa whoa whoa.. actually dude, DO NOT hit me.. with those arms, man you’d KILL ME.. seriously man, don’t don’t.. look at this guy, WTF was I thinking???
(use at your own risk.. :)… )
Also, I get alot of AMOGs here knowing the frame, so I have to take it further: AMOG: Is that design on your shirt a sphinkter? Man, you’re going to need somebody to protect you mate, you’re going to have all the guys into you.. (yes I actually got this, and that was a cool shirt but he still found a way to diss it, and to be honest it was a good diss)
PUA: Dude, that’s why I rolled up on you.. I need YOU man.. help me, please man.. dude, I look at you, and I just KNOW that you were born to protect my sphinkter
AMOG: Is that design on your shirt a sphinkter? Man, you’re going to need somebody to protect you mate, you’re going to have all the guys into you.. PUA: hahah man you are SO FUNNY.. man, you’re the best comedian.. dude, honestly, I like you man.. you’re awesome.. you don’t have to be funny for me to like you..
AMOG: hey you fucking ginger-minger..
(I’m considered bad looking out here, because red-head guys are apparently unattractive in Britain – gingerminger means ugly redhead guy.. for guys who are fat, short, etc, guys will fall back on a CRUTCH and hit you with something sensitive to try to get you to flinch.. after getting burned on this a few times, I figured the formula, again, is to point out the GAP between what they actually ARE and what they PROJECT..
PUA: whoa you’re like the best verbal sparring partner ever.. that was so original man.. you’re SO COOL.. ladies, is this guy not the coolest?? Guy, I can’t roll with you, I’ll pay you a hundred dollars to take these ladies from me right now..
I was just heading off to the club, but thought about something that happened to me last night on the topic of AMOGs. To me, this is really important stuff, although maybe nobody will get it or maybe its more obvious to them so its redundant. Anywayz….
I’m sitting at one of the computers in my student center, and I see an AMOG from the other night. I had been working a 2set, and he’d come into the set.
One thing I love to do when an AMOG enters the set, is this really simple coin snatch trick that I learned from Mystery (he actually learned it from a dude at the Guvernment club /www.theguvernment.com, my favourite club in Toronto, whose girlfriend he was stealing, but this guy showed him the trick so he lost interest in the girl and just learned it). I can’t post it because its
Mystery’s (him and Style are sticky about that stuff, whereas I just post all my shit because if I get caught in a repeat I just think its funny), but really this doesn’t matter. The idea is just learn ANY BASIC TRICK. Then you can use this kind of tactic. Just learn anything. The coin thing isn’t even magic. It’s just a dumb trick that happens to be field tested and shown to work extremely well. But you can use bar bets or ANYTHING.
So anyway, what I’ll do is that the AMOG will enter the set and the girls will start chatting him because they know him. But I’ll say “Dude dude dude, CHECK THIS OUT.. Alright, hold your hand out.” and do the trick on him.
Now what this accomplishes, is that you’re OWNING the guy right in front of the girls. Rather than sitting there like a puppydog, hoping that the girls will come back to you, you just take over the set by demonstrating something to him, where he’s having to take directions from you in order to see it.
Also important is that on occasion the alpha will know what’s happening, and just not agree to do it. Most guys will back down from this, but instead I just CUT HIM OUT OF REALITY. I say something dismissive like “Cool dude, its OK to be shy man, I was like that before too.. anyway HBwhatever, check this out, its AWESOME”, with HIGH ENERGY because girls are drawn to that, and then you can blow him out of the set because the girls focus on you and there’s nothing he can do about it. If he’s a member of the set (close friend or whatever), then later on say “Dude, I’m just chilling man.. Just shooting the shit.. I didn’t mean to fuck with you.. What’s your name, man?” and because of SOCIAL PRESSURE, he’ll supplicate you and actually be receptive to your attempts to get rapport with him, because inside he feels what you’ve done to his status, and he just wants a quick-fix to regain it. So if you stroke his ego just a BIT, he’ll now RESPECT you and befriend you. Even help you. But do this later, AFTER you’ve blown him out, when he’s sitting there like a pouting puppydog.
The thing is, and this is IMPORTANT, is that these AMOGs have natural tendencies to still fuck you over, and make it look like you’re qualifying yourself.
In this case, the guy just thought that I was cool, and social proofed me to the girls (who invited me out to the club tonight, actually). But typically, they’ll do this like this:
You’re showing people pictures. He’ll come in and yell out “WICKED! Pictures! Awesome man, its like a little show. Show me your little show, man! This is awesome stuff! Man, these girls are loving this shit. (grabs them from you) Hey girls, check these out!”
Like they do what I remember I once called “USURPING THE GLORY”, in an old alpha post I wrote. Actually I’m just remembering that post now. It’s funny how this stuff evolves, because that very post (I think it was called “10 Alpha Behaviours – for breakbeat, so DAFS if interested) was the first post where I was sitting down and trying to figure out what the fuck these big annoying fuckers were doing to maintain their alpha status all the time.
Anyway, where was I? Oh yeah, last night.
I see this guy with a girl. He decides that he’s going to outalpha me in a friendly way, to build value to his girlfriend. He stops beside me at the computer, with this girl on his arm, and says “Hey check out this guy’s little trick. It’s the bomb. He can grab a coin out of your hand in like 1 second. Show her the shit man. Show her.”
Alphas always try to do this stupid shit. I think its funny, because this guy obviously has no idea what he’s dealing with.
So he puts out his hand to make me do it on him. I stand up and smirk, and then put out my hand for his girl to be the one I do it on.
Right there, I’m now disobeying him, smirking at him like I’m not even saying much to him other than just being dismissive, and controlling the set the way *I* want it done.
Immediately she touches me and shows IOIs.
I say “For you man, I’d do anything. I met this guy last night, and he was the shit. I just KNEW I had to impress him”. Then I put my hand on his shoulder while I say this.
He says “Yeah, check this out!”, like in this sort of alpha way that I can’t really explain on the internet, but he’s trying to like re-direct the set. But
I cut him off just as the last word “out” is coming out of his mouth, and I’m like “Dude, SSHHH.. This requires concentration. Stay still.”
Then I run the trick, and she freaks out. Then I IMMEDIATELY start pumelling her with game, right in front of her guy. She’s touching me, giving IOIs, and I’m pushing her onto him.
She tells me where she works (on campus), and qualifies herself to me by saying who her friends are (they’re the “cool” girls, who I’m better friends with than her), and you can tell that the interest is there.
I actually LIKE this alpha guy, and he’s not a bad guy. So I don’t further attempt to steal his girl from him, because I feel validated at this point, and generally don’t want to cause problems in my small social circle at school.
But he put me in the position where I could have, and I used his dumbass out-alpha attempts to pummel him with shit he didn’t expect.
The moral here is that you need to OWN THE SET. Have DHVs ready that GUYS will like, so that you can own them, the second that they arrive.
Anyway, this struck me as funny, and a good isolated example of something that almost every night that I go out. It’s subtle subcommunication, that girls respond to immediately. In fact, its a great way to convey value fast. Owning the men in a group.
Thanks for the input man. Actually you and I are on the EXACT same wave length here, but I failed to explain things thoroughly so good clarification. Check over the part where I wrote to actually just not to talk to the alpha, to bait him to keep talking to you. Where I wrote “just sit there and say nothing, or even make “let’s go” girl eye code.
What I do is use silence to blow the guy out. If he acknowledges ME while I won’t acknowledge HIM, he qualifies himself by still paying attention to me, and is blown out.
As for acknowledging him too much, I actually DISREGARD the alphas until they try to cut in. I de-value them by treating them like they don’t exist, but if they get in my way aggressively (which is what most of the post was referring to, since its Europe out here), then I cut them down with the aforementioned tactics.
Still man, very good clarification, because like with boyfriend destroyers where guys will say “How do you get the boyfriend to come up in convo?”, its
like “dude, this is TROUBLE SHOOTING.. preferably, you don’t want it to come up at all”. The out-alpha stuff is for when its unavoidable – common out here in Europe.
Haaa.. dude, you definitely do this stuff also.. Yes man, in Lester Square we get these guys. The key is to go FURTHER than they do.. Good that you brought this up also, I forgot about these, and they’re common.
AMOG: You know I already fucked these girls.
PUA: haa… oh man, I hope you doubled up! GROSS!
AMOG: hey guys..
PUA: Hey.. know how I know these girls.. I fucked them..
AMOG: haa.. then you got sloppy seconds buddy.. gross!
PUA: hahaha.. oh dude, you KNOW I doubled up on these girls.. hahaha
AMOG: look at these little brats (or whatever teasing or neg)
PUA: yeah man, these girls tried to fuck me all night..
AMOG: they tried to fuck YOU? hahha, these girls ARE sluts!
PUA: dude, you have NO CLUE.. these girls just did (whatever thing you can MISINTERPRET)
THIS I LEARNED FROM CROATIAN BADBOY (IMO the best PUA in the scene in all Europe, taught me this stuff.. he’s not known on mASF, but well known in the European scene and the Lounge.. He did post stuff here though on how he fucked the “Miss Croatia” competition winners and other celebs he fucked, which you guys may remember)
Look at the double binds Badboy is using here:
AMOG: hey look at these little brats (or whatever teasing) BADBOY: hey man.. do you have a girlfriend?
BADBOY: girls.. what do you think of a guy who goes out and leaves his girlfriend all alone.. is that nice? HBS: nooooo…
AMOG: no… (he now looks bad for having no girlfriend)
BADBOY: man, you have to be nice to girls.. you have to by them drinks and flowers and call them 10 times a day.. girls, you like guys who treat you nice right (they HAVE to say yes, even though they don’t.. also, by saying it in a way that makes nice guys sound LAME, he’s highlighting that he’s not like that, but is TOOLING the AMOG all the while)
For guys who have less game:
AMOG: flowers/drinks/compliments/even just approaching
BADBOY: girls.. go to him.. he is nice.. he will buy you whatever you want, and call TEN TIMES A DAY.. no no.. a HUNDRED TIMES A DAY.. he will WORSHIP YOU..
By Tyler Durden