Comments on: The Truth About Routines by DJ Fuji

By: paperazzo

paperazzo — Tue, 24 Aug 2010 07:26:53 +0000

I´ve discovered PU-world a couple of months ago and since than I´ve read a lot of stuff. Now I have a lot of material in my head, but until now I was not able to use it because of my limiting beliefs and a feeling of huge pressure every time I went on the field.
But shifting to a “Training-mindset”, to just use the routines for training purpose on the way to become natural, gave me a big “ahaaaa”. Now I don´t expect results anymore, I just think about training myself.
So thank you very much for sharing this crucial idea.

By: alphawolf

alphawolf — Tue, 17 Aug 2010 01:12:08 +0000

@ Kaide73. No. Game is an external representation of your internal self, therefore no routines will consistently display a persons’s unique self.

Different gurus use different “sound bites” and “routines” more than others. Mystery is very structured in this sense. Zan and Juggler, less so.

By: kaide73

kaide73 — Sun, 15 Aug 2010 07:37:24 +0000

I just wonder this: There are PUGs who go straight to natural game without teaching routines, at least Eric Disco, Hypnotica, Juggler, Vin diCarlo and Cory Skyy. Then there are PUGs that use routines as training wheels, that will be thrown away, at least Neil Strauss and Gambler. My question is this: Is there any PUGs who teach nothing but routines and never encourage to moving to natural game?

By: DJ Fuji

DJ Fuji — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 14:27:51 +0000

@DC: Routines actually work WELL for guys who are logical because it allows them to map out an interaction and anticipate the contingencies. I used to have a flowchart on my computer that was about 50 pages long. It mapped out every contingency I could think of during my routine stack. It was unnecessary, but it initially helped me get over the fear of approaching and it made me feel a lot more prepared. As I got better, I taught myself the ability to use routines or sound bites WHEN applicable instead of dogmatically no matter what the situation was. Then I taught myself to improvise completely, without needing to rely on routines at all. Then I came full circle and integrated everything back together.

@Rick: Sort of. A natural implies he has a lot of natural social skills. Beliefs do a lot, but good beliefs don’t necessarily mean you will have good social skills. It’s like saying you can be an NBA player if you really believe it. Sure, but that’s assuming you also PRACTICE PLAYING BASKETBALL.

By: Rick

Rick — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 13:24:46 +0000

I agree with this point of view. I don’t understand why guys who are already good spend their time on creating new routines. I think underneath the beliefs that hold us back, everyone is a natural.

By: David Black

David Black — Sun, 07 Feb 2010 14:37:44 +0000

I like the routines as bike-stabiliser-wheels metaphor. While you are learning to ride a bike, you have the guide wheels on, but then as you get confident with riding, you take them off and ride unassisted. This directly parallels the transition from canned material to doing things more by the ‘seat of your pants’.

Pretty scary, and you might fall off a few times, but once you’ve found your ‘balance’ you are more free than you could ever be with the ‘stabilisers’.

By: matrix

matrix — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:22:22 +0000

One of the biggest mistakes I see guys do is that they tend to think all they need is routines. As you said in your post the real use of a routine is merely to teach you a specific skill. The words themselves are useless, the use comes from being able to register in your mind the feedback you receive and calibrate accordingly.

By: alphawolf

alphawolf — Sat, 06 Feb 2010 06:02:13 +0000

I am very glad that DJ Fuji wrote this. We talked about it in our interview and I realized that it was extremely helpful to my game, and I hope you guys can learn from it too!

By: D.C.

D.C. — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:25:44 +0000

Also, routines work really bad for people who are extremely logical (instead of going with the flow) and can’t follow up the conversation that they started. A common question is “so what do I say next?”.

By: D.C.

D.C. — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 11:23:50 +0000

Good point, and I believe this should be taught more explicitly.

Many noobies (including me!) end up believing that the way to learn pickup is to learn the perfect combination of “routines” and “replies”, and this often becomes a glass wall in front of yourself.

When you try to approach a girl without the little “gadgets”, you’re as scared as you were before learning them. Some end up becoming more natural, but many don’t.

So it should be explicitly taught that it’s not about the routines, it’s about getting reference experiences.